When one takes the time to study human societies and civilizations and their laws or rules for being a part of them you will soon realize that all spices that inhabit this planet are more alike then different.  Probably the reason humans study other spices so much, just trying to figure out why we do the things we do.  Hmmmm. 

I don't think all the research has come up with a valid explanation.

All those comments come from all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds and countries.....

Kinda makes it universally considered.

The way of the world.....

The young think they can get away with murder and do what they like...

The less young think there's still hope for a utopia and besides...it makes good convo over a Latte on a Sunday morning.....

The older are somewhat jaded...usually by episodes of being on the receiving end of injustices and violence/abuse.

The old [and wise] are scoffed at for clearly being past it, Grandpa.....fuck off and die...we're inheriting your world anyway.

Decide which stage of life YOU are at.....

....and look forward to YOUR future.....

[almost] all topics are seen as acceptable discussion.

We will let you know when one is not....

No, I quoted the statement and understand it quite well. Your (and the_Monk's) concepts of Utopian (word = doesn't exist) Society are idealistic, and/but are unreal. People come in all shapes/sizes/etc. They don't all buy into your concepts. Education/re-education don't change behavior permanently in most cases. I can't get folks to take the medicines they came to me for correctly, no matter how many times explained. That's because they're people, make mistakes and think they know better. Can't be helped, just re-explained.

The issue in the OP was very concrete. A group of people violated the law. Then they went a step further and physically endangered others.

They need to be dealt with by a court of law. If guilty, I believe the sentence should not be light.

You wish to believe and feel otherwise - ok, that's fine.

Reasons, mitigations etc. don't really cut it since they are not going to deal with these criminals nor prevent others. Not in this nor in several generations. Why? Because of a simple fact (or facts): One size does not fit all, and people are people.

Very powerful tools are put in the hands of the immature without adequate supervision/limitations. Worse, judgment does not fully develop until age 21-25. These are observed fact. Not theory. The world has to relate to these facts, and adjust access to them and the range of what can be done with them accordingly. They are exposed to violent films and games. Because it's in the T.V. or computer, it isn't real. Maybe. Maybe that partially fosters the "I'm invincible/impervious" attitude of the young. I don't know and hazarding a guess? Neither do you. There are undoubtedly many factors.

I wish things could be different, but willful children cannot be put behind the wheel of a car or airplane. I wouldn't give a 5 or 10 year old a hand grenade to play with. Would you? No, of course not. They lack the judgment to prevent disaster.

Similarly, I believe that if a younger person can demonstrate responsibility (school grades, behavior, testing) then allowances can be made with supervision. I don't presume to know who should make these judgments. Possibly parents, if responsible.

The key to what I feel, as you can see, is responsibility and accountability together with what one can reasonably expect. I believe that when people can demonstrate responsibility, then a degree of trust can be given.

I don't believe in grandiose, idealistic plans. They simply don't work, and the wide necessary consensus does not exist to create such a plan.

I also don't believe in huge social engineering schemes. They have been tried in the past without success (thankfulness here). I don't believe anyone knows what's best in all circumstances for all people, nor 'the right way' to build society. I believe that is what is being suggested here, and I am opposed.

When it comes to doing things which endanger the lives of others, the response must be quick, and firm. Nothing less.

And, myfist0, if you don't like the topic, no one is forcing you to participate.

 This is the fuel of the fire that makes the existence of Mephistopheles burn brighter. 
inert evil laugh

Public school is a "huge social engineering scheme". Not just the 3 Rs. Do you not remember hearing "Sit up straight", Raise your hand to ask a question, school bells designed like factories, uniforms, social studies?

 Not to bad of a system but it is still social engineering. As well as that taboo subject.

EDIT

Keeping the Rabble in Line; Noam Chomsky; dives into somewhat.

EDIT 2 Rieview

From Publishers Weekly

Barsamian, the founder of Alternative Radio, and Chomsky, allegedly the most quoted author in the modern era, have forged a symbiotic relationship that manages to distill Chomsky's political philosophies and make them accessible. Barsamian's historically grounded, well-informed and probing questions prompt Chomsky to deconstruct concepts of class, media and economics. Chomsky deftly addresses domestic and foreign conundrums including health care, the recent crime bill and NAFTA. While these interviews span a two-year period and end early in 1994, they remain provocative and timely, with Chomsky's insights on Haiti, Northern Ireland and the Middle East proving especially resonant. Ultimately, Rabble serves as a Chomsky primer that is without condescension, and the question-and-answer format shows him at his most concise and adroit. His criticism exposes democracies as business-run societies that render the general population isolated from politics, persuasively suggesting that we are on the verge of a social breakdown. What sets this work apart from other reluctant messiahs who simply intellectualize suffering, is that Barsamian and Chomsky discuss avenues for activism-strengthening unions, following grassroots organizations or simply reading between the lines. Together they act as a lens, enabling the reader to see what has been there, hidden in plain sight. 

Doc,  I have a concept now?  I happen to live in Canada where some of those social "programs" I was describing earlier have been implemented and are working just fine.  One can actually see the differences being made (in some of the programs) on a day to day basis (other programs have longterm outcomes so it becomes harder to see small gains).

Further, in the same post where you suggest my posts are "utopian concepts" you also suggest that maybe, just maybe children shouldn't be given powerful tools to play with?  Something which I alluded to a few pages back which lead straight into the discussion Daiwa and I just had about "responsibility".  The responsibility of of a society (individuals/parents collectively) to ensure such things don't happen.

To reiterate from my posts above...........In Canada we do have programs, legislation and general social conscience that goes beyond "looking out for number one".  We (whether we sometimes like it or not) have social responsibility towards one another.  Everyone pays for everyone.  I pay into a healthcare program which heals/takes care of people who cannot or just simply won't pay into it.  Does it sometimes irk me to do so?  Maybe.  But I see the alternative and wouldn't choose that for the world.  Everyone pays into our schools, even those without children.  Do some not like that?  Sure, but then we all as a society benefit when our children can read, write, add/subtract.  There are prison programs which I mentioned, there are so many in-school and after-school programs (many who have enjoyed huge successes even without public funding), housing programs, neighborhood facelift programs and these don't even count the many volunteer-only or government incentive programs.  Maybe where you're from these programs don't work.  Who knows.  For the most part they're working up here.  When something breaks we try (collectively) to fix it.  In Canada to a large degree we understand that on our own (as the individual) we are/mean nothing.  It is as a society where we are strong.  Does that mean we have "utopian" idealistic concepts?  No.

EDIT:  I have never been against seeking punishment for these individuals (afterall our prisons are full of law-breakers).  I have however suggested that society needs to understand that the "root causes" which allowed for individuals such as these and allowed for actions such as these will not be addressed no matter how vigorously these individuals are "dealt" with.

jump to 5:50 

Jump to Part 12 

Very well said.

  wrong again.

If I truly believe as I profess (which is because we are all responsible for the way things are if we want them to change then we have to get off of our asses and do something different), then I can get together with other like-minded individuals (part of the whole) and request law-makers to make changes to societal allowances.  For instance it is already being discussed that ISP's here be forced to store information about everything you did while using their connection so that should law enforcement ever need to request said information it is readily available.  Laws like that and others along the same lines could actually help prevent these types of actions in the future.  Taking someone's scalp however does nothing but upset someone else who will then in turn have another axe to grind.

EDIT:  Another thing.  You chose to not respond to a previous post of mine because you no longer wished to discuss anything with me.  You then quote me and make references to me in other posts?

Noam Chomsky. Well that says it all.

The law is the law. Reality. They wil be dealt with as they deserve.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Too bad they didn't listen during "Computer Crime is still Crime - 101".

Again, society needs protection from the criminals. Not vice versa.

Thank you for reading and I do hold out hope that greater numbers in the world's society will come around to a more responsible way of thinking.  We have to on so many levels.  Someday soon humanity simply won't have a choice.

Glad to see you don't think Canada is Utopia.

Lots of Canadians agree with that... especially the Youth Criminal Act.

I see Lightstar.  Fine.  You want this discussion-vein to finally end so you can stop being bored?  Done.

Thank you Daiwa and a few others who actually posted here for the purposes of good discussion.  The rest of you........sorry your intellect wasn't challenged and you were so bored.  Maybe next time!

Have a nice day everyone.

You quote users from several countries there.  And while they have strong feelings, it takes more than that to pass laws of a nation (even 1 nation) unless any of the quoted are really Hugo Chavez.