Ramblings of an old Doc

 

Unbelievable.

Talk about shooting one’s self in the foot. For me, Windows 8 has gone from bad to worse.

So now, in the ARM version of W8, there will be no possibility of installing a third party browser, per the MS blog (1). So, for x86 systems, free access to all browsers. For tablets with ARM, “No soup for you!” and no “Come back one year.”

MS forgot it said quite the opposite in the past (2). Asa Dotzler won’t let MS forget the page they disappeared either (in the pdf below). Bless you, Mr. Dotzler!

So, third party devs who want to make software for Windows RT, and only create Metro apps for that and thus MS shoots itself in the foot which seems to be in its mouth. So Mozilla and Google climbed on board in expressing their concerns regarding the limitation of user choice and limiting innovation (no surprise there)… and this kind of limitation will prevent MS from the European market, and will probably cause even more litigation. So much for the “ethical company award” it always touts.

MS claims the reason for doing this is that those apps cannot be ported as is because of:

“commitment to longer battery life, predictable performance, and especially a reliable experience over time.

The conventions used by today’s Windows apps do not necessarily provide this, whether it is background processes, polling loops, timers, system hooks, startup programs, registry changes, kernel mode code, admin rights, unsigned drivers, add-ins, or a host of other common techniques. By avoiding these constructs, WOA can deliver on a new level of customer satisfaction: your WOA PC will continue to perform well over time as apps are isolated from the system and each other, and you will remain in control of what additional software is running on your behalf, all while letting the capabilities of diverse hardware shine through.” (4)

Thus, as M. Bormann points out at gHacks:

“This highlights that it is not only about blocking web browsers, but all classic software from running on ARM. What Mozilla and Google criticize is that these restrictions do not apply to Internet Explorer. Other software companies might criticize that it is also not applying to Office, or other first party software that Microsoft integrates into Windows RT. The question here is if the new APIs are as restrictive as Mozilla and Google make them sound to be like.” (5)

You know what?  I’ve stopped caring about Windows 8. It’s a lost cause, and just getting worse.

If anyone could have killed the idea of the Windows Tablet, it was only MS.

 

Sources:

1. http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2012/05/firefox-on-windows-o.html

2. http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2006/jul06/07-19PrinciplesPR.aspx

3. http://lockshot.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/windows-principles-document.pdf

4. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/02/09/building-windows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx

5. http://www.ghacks.net/2012/05/11/no-third-party-browsers-on-windows-rt/?_m=3n%2e0038%2e516%2ehj0ao01hy5%2eiyk


Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on May 12, 2012

If I read this correctly....

Aren´t you gonna be able to use, say Palemoon, Chrome or Maxthon as your webbrowser if you "Upgrade" to 8 ??

Edit: Feeling bit stupid...this is all about tablets isn´t it

on May 12, 2012

You'll be able to run 3rd party browsers if the software devs build it for that version of windows 8.

on May 12, 2012

So now, in the ARM version of W8, there will be no possibility of installing a third party browser, per the MS blog (1). So, for x86 systems, free access to all browsers. For tablets with ARM, “No soup for you!” and no “Come back one year.”[/quote]

 

This is about Windows 8 RT, and tablets. In the larger sense though, it's about an "Epic Fail" in the making. MS is definitely at war with Google's Chrome and Mozilla, but excluding them from the OS is like banning steak for everyone because babies can't chew it... not an exact metaphor, but you get the idea.

 

[quote who="Heavenfall" reply="2" id="3151555"]You'll be able to run 3rd party browsers if the software devs build it for that version of windows 8.

I'm afraid not... because -

This highlights that it is not only about blocking web browsers, but all classic software from running on ARM.

If you take a look at the Source articles, I think you'll come to another conclusion.

on May 12, 2012

Yes, all classic applications cannot be run on windows on ARM (now windows RT = WinRT), they must be modern - new api. Firefox can develop new version for this windows version. The IE you will find on it is specially developed "modern" using new API. No developer is banned, no software is banned. The problem is that MS software appears to use special API, which they have said they would not do. Mozilla then said they can't compete with that so they won't develop one. 

 

edit:

"First, Microsoft has a browser that runs in Classic mode on Windows ARM. They are not allowing us that same access to run our browser on Classic. Second, Microsoft has a browser that runs in Metro mode on Windows ARM that has access to rich APIs that they are denying to third-party Metro browsers on Windows ARM," Dotzler told CNET. "So, we are denied the ability to deliver any browser on Classic, and we are denied the ability to build a competitive browser on Metro." Dotzler also elaborated on the issue in a first and second blog post.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57431236-92/microsoft-bans-firefox-on-arm-based-windows-mozilla-says/

on May 12, 2012

Heavenfall
"So, we are denied the ability to deliver any browser on Classic, and we are denied the ability to build a competitive browser on Metro."

This is unacceptable behavior... and will cause MS to lose market share where they need it most: The tablet market.

Why make it hard on devs? This is absolutely counterproductive behavior, and incomprehensible... and the anti-competitive approach will cost them in Europe as well. 

on May 12, 2012

Ubuntu is beginning to look better and better every day. I'll keep 7 just the way some are keeping XP and no damn upgrade for this person. Makes you wonder what 9 will be like or....if Microatuff is still around by then.

on May 12, 2012

To put it in away that even Doc would understand, Microsoft is playing the part of our Doctor and giving us pills to take to cure our ills, if they don't work the only other course of action is to switch to Apple.   

on May 12, 2012

I guess this is their way of boosting sales of Win7.

It's also MS's klutzy way of moving to (copying) Apple's closed ecosystem - they're salivating over the prospect of taking a cut of everything that runs on WOM once it's all funneled through the Windows Store.

on May 12, 2012

Daiwa
everything that runs on WOM

I'll be sure to let the birthday boy know... so, like what runs on WOM besides the Skins Galleries? 

on May 12, 2012

Hasn't Apple been doing this for years?. Closed systems. Why when MS do it they get vilified but when Apple do it they get called forward thinking. I mean who cares?. People will still buy it because that's what people do. Instead of whining and bitching complain with your wallet. MS is allowed to do anything they want with the software *gasp* they develop. If you don't like it, then by hell don't bloody buy it, That's how you express your dislike, Not fill the net with outraged blogs and forums. Sheesh

on May 12, 2012

to find again

on May 12, 2012

Nimbin
Hasn't Apple been doing this for years?. Closed systems. Why when MS do it they get vilified but when Apple do it they get called forward thinking. I mean who cares?. People will still buy it because that's what people do. Instead of whining and bitching complain with your wallet. MS is allowed to do anything they want with the software *gasp* they develop. If you don't like it, then by hell don't bloody buy it, That's how you express your dislike, Not fill the net with outraged blogs and forums. Sheesh

I'll take a wild stab at this: because Microsoft has always been an open system that allowed many freedoms when developing stuff for it. Apple has been a closed system forever and everyone is used to it... and I'm sure most of the people in these forums like being able to customize and develop things in an open system (this is in a "WinCustomize" forum, right?). All of a sudden if MS decides to follow in Apple's footsteps, it will alienate a lot of their users. Those users who enjoyed the open system will either 1) be pushed to Linux if they haven't already 2) Just go convert to Mac anyways 3) Stick with MS and jump through all these new hoops out of brand loyalty...?

Yes, Microsoft can do whatever they want in regard to their software, but the current direction they are taking will alienate many of their users AND developers. Time will tell if they will gain enough to make up for it, but it certainly doesn't look promising. In the meantime, said going-to-be-alienated users have a right to complain... and will surely "vote with their wallets" when the time comes.

on May 12, 2012

I uninstalled the Customer Preview.... that's the end of Win 8 for me.

Too many Windows features were stripped out for my liking, but the worst thing?

That Metro UI by default, that's what convinced me to never buy Win 8.

Sure I could use Winstep Xtreme and/or Stardock apps to make it usable, but why bother?

I can do all of that on a perfectly usable OS that I've already paid for, Win 7, so the expense becomes unnecessary.

We at WC are not the only ones who feel this way.  The mood over at Majorgeeks mirrors ours... Win 8 is an abomination.

And I can bet that this is a mood that is mirrored worldwide across many walks of life.

on May 12, 2012

You hit the  the nail right on the head, Cap'n.

Bloody waste of time and effort W8 is... and an ugly one as well.

I have no problem with using 7 as long as it lasts... and when it ends, fine. There's always something else.

on May 12, 2012

I remember saying similar things about XP when Vista was about to be released.  XP is still a perfectly useful OS and should remain so for quite awhile.  Even without SD developing for it.

 

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