Metaphysics stink. They are a catchall for not saying anything whilst seeming very intelligent. Which ever way one looks at it human endavour is futile. Be it here, there or anywhere.

kyogre12

It's not a reason to not go into space...that can happen anywhere in space...and it already has. But again...if we can't get our shit together and take care of a planet we already have we have no business going somewhere else and doing the same thing. We have a livable planet...it's been here long before anyone lived here and will be here...hopefully long after we're gone.

All those things are well and fine...but hardly a reason to go into space. And even the things you mentioned have yet to be perfected.

Don't get ahead of yourself...we...is a few humans landing on the moon...which is a great achievement but still not practical. To get more than a few people into space would need to be something monumental in so many ways...let alone landing safely and then attempting to colonize and terraform a barren planet. I think it's safe to say it would take far more than our national debt at the moment. So no...not practical. Maybe in movies it looks easy...but not in reality.

Can't argue witrh the obvious!

Ok then...so I guess none of are going anywhere. The ones that as you say know what they are doing can't deal with the problems we already face and they have a whole planet of people to help...your not suggesting they do all that on their own?

Ok...you lost me there...responsible...a good track record? If that were the case they wouldn't be thinking about leaving the planet for somewhere else. Yeah we've...meaning those few astronauts and maybe a chimp here and there...been going to space for decades...and it will take decades to come up with anything remotely feasible just to get a planet full of people moved out into space. The logistics are just to monumental for it to even be considered.

Sinperium

People were much tougher back in the Ice Age and pre-industrial times...and if you took someone from present day and sent them back to that time they'd die off in a heartbeat And they didn't have to terraform the planet...and resources were all around them.

Well...you can "try" all you want...it's still a crap shoot of getting clobbered...so I'll take my chances here. We've been hit many times by space rocks and some pretty big ones if history is correct. And it's not a matter of just accepting fate...it's accepting life. Our life is here on this planet as it has been for millions of years.

Dude...you watch to many space movies. It would take a hell of a lot more than some effort or determination to make that happen. First you need to get all the people up there out there where ever your planning on going. It would more than likely take years before anything got established and viable for people to live there...where ever there is...and then you have no idea what the effects of a weightless planet would be on trying to clone anything...and since it's yet to be done you'd be shit out of luck if it was determined unfeasible. There just to many things to consider to make any of it feasible.

Seriously...retire on earth? The earth does not have a limited lifespan...at least not one that should concern you...and as far as resources...if we were more responsible we could easily have limitless resources...in fact I'd venture to say that we have more resources than all other planets combined...we just need to stop being so greedy and irresponsible.

Just like oil? People got along just fine before oil...we could do it again if we had to...we would just have to change our lifestyles and adapt. Which would be far more practical then going into space. The end of oil is not the end of life.

As far as "expanding"...we never finish anything we start. Yeah we're great at producing things close to great but then we just drop the ball and move on to the next thing without perfecting what we already started...or in our desire to make something better we just screw it up.

We have become to selfish and greedy to come together as a race to accomplish anything as huge as moving people off the planet. That's why I say...until we can prove we can come together and bring this already habitable planet back from the brink we aren't going anywhere.

But hey...don't let me burst your dream...nothing wrong with dreaming...one day...we will boldly go where no man has gone before! And then...the Simpsons will come on.

The problem with humans is that we spend so much time looking at the stars we ignore what's right under our feet. Same thing with religion and origin...we spend so much time trying to figure out where life came from that we forget to live and kill anyone that disagrees with us at the drop of oil.

Now...if...and I mean if...we could all come together without the factor of money and greed...and we pooled all of our talents and skills from everyone in an endeavor to create enough ships to get people off this planet...it still probably wouldn't work. Someone would manage to screw it up.

Now your just being silly.

With all due respect WG take a look at dwarf planet Vesta. It lives in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. Enough raw material to build a city that would circle the globe twice. The Moon can be mined for two basic ingredients. Hydrogen and Oxygen. Fuel for the masses. In the asteroid belt alone there are enough resources to build another Earth right next door several times over. Earth is just a speck of dust in comparison. Our resources, no matter how much you conserve, are finite not infinite. Space exploration in its earliest stages is all about procuring badly needed resources to offset what we have left. Without access to the (almost limitless) resources within our solar system and a way to relieve the stress on Earth due to overpopulation this planet, our civilization dies. Like it or not moving out into space is inevitable. To survive as a race we must. If we meet ET out there then so what. Space is big enough for everybody.

With all due respect and then what? Procreate to procreate...... wow what future.

Oh man, I knew there was something on the list I forgot to do. 

Uvah...With all due respect. Your kidding....right? Planet Vesta? And we're going to mine Oxygen and Hydrogen as fuel for the masses...and fly around this asteroid belt collecting resources and then build a planet from moon dust? And here I thought the sixties were only good to me!

Oh...and I see you solved the dilemma of stress due to over population...our civilization dies. 

Damn! Now my brain hurts!

     Stardust. The second generation space probe with a new ion propulsion system. Very clean and relatively inexpensive to build as opposed to conventional engines like those used on the shuttles. About one tenth the cost. One very much like it is on its way to Vesta to take detailed measurements of its composition. Mining this asteroid/dwarf planet like those in the asteroid belt could bring a wealth of resources like iron, nickel, titanium, gold, copper, not to mention precious minerals like diamonds and such. Platinum is one that is found in only two countries on Earth. Russia is one of them. Titanium China has the hold on and we need titanium among others for our electronics.

     Private enterprise is going to be the first ones out there, not NASA. In a few years they'll have their own ships and their own astronauts. They'll be the ones who will develop the tools independent of NASA, which NASA is encouraging, To build the mining colonies first on the moon then on Mars. Riches beyond imagination awaits those who have the b***s to reach out and grab it. It is estimated that two large asteroids alone could yield trillions of dollars in raw materials. So saying that we shouldn't is contrary to what we should do. One thing I will agree with you is this. Hearth and home comes first. Take care of what we have here and the rest is easy. Ease the burden on Earth's resources by mining what's out there and there will be that much more for every one else. Wishful thinking maybe but it is worth the effort.

Ok--here's a real and practical use of space that could begin right now and have actual payoffs:

• Establish a permanent space station at a LaGrange point between earth and the moon.
• Begin creation of  a moon base.
• Build an orbital fleet of construction, crew, cargo, tug and tanker vessels to service all orbital facilities and activities.
• Begin asteroid surveys with the goals of identifying mineable commodities such as rare elements and ice for fuel and oxygen, cooling and power.
• Begin deployment of massive microfilm solar cell sheets to provide energy for microwave transmission to earth and orbital power facilities and propulsion lasers for asteroid cargo vessels.

If you started this process (because sooner or later we have to "do" something for anything to start), you would begin the creation of a new global growth industry.  The potential wealth in the asteroids is staggering.  Blowing holes in mountainsides and gouging a crater or sending people two miles underground in a toxic environment to get precious metals and rare elements on earth could be done in space and the minerals there are much easier to get to.

The solar arrays could also be used as solar sails using earth and moon orbital lasers to send a steady stream of containers and equipment towards the asteroid belts.

The moon base could rapidly be made near self sufficient once this was up to speed and provides a low gravity (cheaper to orbit and de-orbit) crew way station to offset zero-g bone and muscle loss and to provide some R&R.

The microwave power generation is already technically doable and the capacity and ease of construction now of solar cells has exponentially exploded just in the past five years.  There are cells with higher than 50% efficiency and ones that can be printed onto paper or housing tiles by an ink press (just like a newspaper).

There are power generating waste atomizers already used on earth that could use solar power to reduce orbital debris and actual human waste could be "dropped" on the moon after a solar sail nudge fom orbit.

Zero-G facilities might help engineer breakthroughs in fusion research making it viable on the moon and especially on earth and the moon provides a low grav research facility "on the ground as well.

The orbital facilities aren't "Star Trek"--most of them can be inflatable baloons and metal graphite frames.  A Cargo carrier could be simply metal crates  or even a cargo net.

One large ice bearing body in the asteroid belt could provide fuel, air and water for the entire operation there allowing actual rocket boosted flight to and from earth.Ion engines are dirt cheap and practical as well and would do wonders for getting containers back and forth to all locations.

On this scale, a real industry is created--generating efficient mass production opportunities for everything needed and improving education in the working populaces.  Technological breakthroughs and new products and services are a given.

We're talking about an investment in some booster rockets, fuel,  metal tanks, aluminum and graphite frames and silicon to get started.  It's a joke that it hasn't already begun and it doesn't because people stare at their problems and think "We can't do that!  it will be expensive!". "What about the poor and hungry and people here!?".  They do this instead of realizing it would finance improving the entire planet and reduce the economic, ecological and eventually possible even population pressures on it.

It also positions us to actually be able to see and do something about possible impact bodies before they get here and the science alone coming out of this would be staggering.

The real problem is it takes long-term, funding, multidisciplinary planning, courage by politicians and some money up-front.  Add up all the world stimulus and bail-out packages from the economic crisis and you could have paid cash up front and covered the first ten years of development of all this with no need for profit at all during that time.

Instead, now its just pissed down the drain.

It would put business in space.  Creating virtual space on the internet has created a whole new global economy and the only real long term business growth in some time (and helped prevent an immediate economic depression globally).  Imagine what opening up actual space with tangible resources would do.

We need things to make people think along these lines so that politicians and companies can have the support to begin them.  Programs like SETI (or more practical ones like the Hubble)  help do this.

And the problem is that it's very doubtful that "the poor and hungry" would ever gain anything from things like this...not unless you came up with some high tech cardboard they could use in winter. As great as this may all sound I could never back anything like this until we start treating people more humanely. People should come first before anything...do that and you might gain more backers. And any time you use the word "finance" anything gained will be hoarded by the more wealthy...which is another reason I couldn't back something like this. And considering the state of our economy this all a mute point anyway.

It opens up work and education, spurs job creation and raises the standard of living. That does a lot more than only providing a soup kitchen or welfare voucher.

The aid governments and individuals give now is based on what they can afford. More wealth makes both parties more willing to consider investing in social areas--less wealth makes it less likely. That's why charitable giving is down now.

I'm not advocating doing away with aid to go to space, I'm advocating going to space so less people need aid and more can give it. I don't know if you have ever lived in poverty but I have and you want more than handouts--you want the opportunity to take care of yourself. The number of skilled jobs a program like what I suggest here woul create is staggering compared to any other efforts we could mount.

Very good view Sin, very good indeed, you basically put out what I think all the time into actually words people can understand and read

Or, just a thought, stop boinking like rabbits and do a bit of proper demographic planning. Who knows, we'll be still around by the time we come even close to true spacetravel. The current timeline is for that isn't very hopeful, despite all the hype.

At the very best we could send out a seedship and hope for the best. SciFi is way ahead of reality, which is that given the distances involved the whole idea becomes a pipedream.

Colonizing mars or the moon might seem someone's idea of fun, it sure isn't mine. The Gobi desert is less hostile, and not inhabited by many humans for good reason. 

In terms of this...

Time is Money.

The more money and resources that get pooled towards space exploration and colonization the faster we'll get into space and gain the benefits of said exploration.