Ya know, folks, whatever is wrong with the current US gov't... it is repeated when the next US gov't is elected.  The disease is inherrent and is to bound be repeated over and over again because nobody has the balls to say "we got it wrong".

To be honest, any US citizen who bets the farm or their lives on the Bill of Rights, the constitution and/or its various amendments is a fechen fool.  The US government places no value in any of that whatsoever, holding true only that which gives it greater control over the US populace, by implementing new laws and constitutional amendments that effectively repeal and/or revoke your rights as US citizens. 

Get past the bullshit of national security, people, and see it for what it really is... governmental surveillance and even greater control. The sooner US citizens say no to being treated with such contempt and being bullied into submission the better

If a 'suspect' group/person requires monitoring due to suspect behaviours, fine, do your job, but after that, government has no business whatsoever to pry into the lives of ordinary, law abiding citizens who have no criminal history or ties to suspect organisations.  However, despite 100% innocence, absolutely no ties to terrorist organisations, ect, people in the US are being monitored by govenment, whether they pose a threat to national security or not.

Put bluntly. the US government needs a swift kick up the arse... to be told: "Look out for our interests, don't impose yours on us,"

So, as an Aussie, why am I so interested in the US political lanndscape/what your effwits are doing to you?

Sadly, the effwits in Canberra tend to think with their arses and will want to follow suit, hoping to inpose the same bullshit on us.

Thankfully, we Aussies don't wear bullshit well, and it's defeated sooner rather than later.

That's not necessarily the case. Some front-runner candidates are running on a platform against spying, i.e. pro constitution. We have a chance to elect someone who is in favor of the 4th amendment on principle. Some of those people have a strong pro constitution record. Now we've all been duped before, and it won't be the last time, so there's always that. The cynic in me says you are 100% right. But I'd rather at least have someone who says they are pro 4th amendment than someone who thinks continued spying is necessary for national security, and then we the people would hold them to their word.

Please leave politics (specific parties/candidates) out of this. 

Thanks.

There's nothing wrong with holding onto some faith in those elected officials who still offer hope and try to make things better.  At the same time, there's nothing wrong with being that bit cynical as well.  If you can maintain a healthy balance of both, well you have a better chance of sifting out the bullshit and get a little closer to the truth and what is reality.

That's alright, Doc, I wouldn't dream of mentioning specific so n' so's of such n' such... nah, not me.

Gee, do you think you should stand up for your freedoms now, while you have a voice, or when you have reason to fear the government (too late to act)? The "I have nothing to hide" argument is incredibly weak and fallacious. Anyone interested in using critical thought (you clearly are not) can and has cracked it right open.

Do you invite the police to inspect your house for no reason? Do you send the IRS more information than what they require or request? Would you voluntarily tell a police officer, who just stopped you for speeding, about the irresponsible things you did as a young person?

Remember what the US government did to Japanese citizens during WWII. We had prison camps in this country. Look back at McCarthyism and the Red Scares. Fearing the government is not merely a matter of paranoia.

Do you want the government to have a massive database of decades of your data that they can cherry pick? What if we find ourselves in a war, and the government is VERY desperate for some specialized labor you can provide but at too high a cost? At that time, will you be happy and comfortable with them knowing more about you than you know about yourself?

A "good and clean life" is a meaningless phrase suited only for rationalizing an entrenched position. This isn't about morality, it's about participating in our democracy. Use your rights or possibly lose them. If you're going to be a thoughtless drone, at least have the courtesy to be silent about it.

OK...now let's just stop calling people names.  It will only end in tears and they won't be mine....

Ignored.... 

In fact it isn't. You have no idea how truly good a person LightStar is. I only know a bit, but it's enough to make me proud he's my friend. He's thoughtful, and good. 

In these Forums, people respect each others' right to have their own opinions and disagree politely...

You should pay close heed to Jafo's advice.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww, thanks Doc! 

Doc, you were wise to post about this crucial issue in the OP. If people don't show some opposition to unregulated surveillance we risk people's very right to have their own opinions, on the internet in general.

Name calling was hardly the focus in my opinion, understanding the issue is the focus. That was my intent all along. If my use of the phrase 'thoughtless drone' distracted from my argument, then it was a mistake.

I totally believe you that LightStar is a great guy. But you yourself rightly took issue with his dismissal of the problem in Reply #14.

Did I get too excited? Maybe. But am I the only one who gets angry in response to apathy on this issue? If I am, is that a good thing?

The reality is that it is exactly those rights people get concerned about that entitle reponses/opinions such as Lightstar's to be voiced.

To assert someone whose opinion does not match yours is unacceptable [apathy] is simply wrong - and actually unacceptable in itself, particularly when it impunes on another user's good character.

Stardock's forums have rules of conduct, one of which is to not 'attack' fellow member through insult [or any other mechanism].

Apathy is a right. Anger against someone's apathy is not - here...

Re the Op...it's not immediately relevant to me.  I am not 'managed' by the NSA. [hopefully] as I am not American/in America.

Do I fret invasions of privacy?  Yes, some.  I'd hate it if 'we stand behind every bed we sell' was a reality....would make bedroom antics 'voyeuristic.....'

On the Internet?

No.

I know of people who have been CAUGHT thanks to the internet and it's 'monitoring'...and are currently in jail in the rock spider wing....

Worth every bit of 'intrusion' of privacy...

There are certain people and circumstances that must be stamped out - such as rock spiders and the peddling/viewing of child porn - and if the authorities are watching known offenders and/or suspects, then I'm fine with that.  What I'm not fine with is the new legislation that telcos keep every single person's phone and internet data for up to two years or more.... just so's government can scrutinise it and perhaps use some of it against us at a later date.  That means you, me and every other Aussie who uses their phone and internet innocently.

Now it's all well and good to say "but I've got nothing to hide", and perhaps you don't.... TODAY!!!  What if the tax man suddenly decides that you should be paying a much larger slice of your income, trawls through your internet purchases, discovers you bought parts to build a $6000 - $7000 computer and adjusts your tax to 70c in the dollar?  Or that a PC part you purchased back then suddenly becomes contraband because it does shit the government don't like?

So yes, while there are perfectly valid reasons to monitor certain individuals and store their data, government in Australia has been following US/NSA examples and is becoming more and more intrusive... and it will go over the top, scrutinising the affairs of ordinary, every day people with nothing to hide if we don't step up and say no.  I certainly don't want to be living in a police state where government and law enforcement knows when I go for a walk, feed the ducks in the park or drain the lizard.  Exaggeration?  Perhaps, but the last decade has seen government implement even greater controls over every day people, and going by the recent slew of events, a police state is in motion, we just haven't been officially told.

Government should protect our freedom, yes, not take away our freedoms in order to do so. then imposse its will on us through self-serving interests.

We're getting closer and closer to the time when "pre-crime" is more important to the state (think civil forfeiture) than real crime.  Real criminals will have little difficulty with that sort of regime while ordinary citizens (and petty criminals, admittedly) will more likely be ensnared.

As I said...people can disagree, but no name calling. And what I said was that I disagreed, but that the privacy issue has to do with communications, files, etc....not with LightStar's character but rather with all of our Constitutional rights. 

Passion is a good thing, but as I and many others have said (and occasionally regretted not doing) is not to reply immediately, to reply factually, and NEVER personally. As the Godfather said, "It's not personal. It's business."