Ramblings of an old Doc

 

We’ve had the Patriot Act (I really don’t like throwing that ‘P’ word around, especially for that) fourteen years. By and large? It’s a real balancing act, which has been abused.

Now, the House has forced the Senate’s hand and hopefully we’ll have a new law which removes the mass data collection the NSA’s been doing. We’ll see.

Now, the House has passed the USA Freedom Act (catchy use of the ‘F’ word) supposedly restraining the NSA’s bulk data collection. Not a word of thanks to Edward Snowden, who revealed the abuse two years ago. Now there’ll be more transparency in the data collection. No doubt they’ll replace it with something else, or have GCHQ, etc. do it for them.

The House passed it 338-88. “Today, we have a rare opportunity to restore a measure of restraint to surveillance programs that have simply gone too far.” - Rep. Conyers.

Something new in Washington: Bipartisanship. To be sure. Why am I worried? When politicians agree, it bodes ill. It usually means that they all agree they have something to hide, which might have been exposed otherwise. I don’t kid myself it’s for the common man. Or is it just for show? After all, the Senate Majority Leader wants to simply hold onto the Patriot Act intact. Maybe the 338-88 vote will force him to realize it just might be the will of the people…not to mention that 2016 is fast approaching.

The bill actually expands data collection from chat apps, video, etc. It also doesn’t limit NSA’s use of search terms and “emergency” (the old ‘ticking bomb’) warrantless search: So, it really doesn’t do much to limit NSA’s mass surveillance and actually enables the worst practices, and allows the government to claim state secrecy, according to Evan Greer (Fight for the Future).

I guarantee the government will try to stretch the boundaries of this bill just as it did with the Patriot Act. I’d bet they have folks working on that even now (Reagan’s “9 most terrifying words” folks).

The Speaker of the House just said (in relation to Libertarians wanting stronger limits), "This is a very delicate issue. I know members would like to offer some amendments, but this is not a place for people to bring out the wrecking ball.”

Wrong. This is EXACTLY the time and place to engage in an honest a full debate. It is never  the time to suppress honest concern over our freedoms. While this reforms the FISA program, it leaves the NSA with immensely powerful tools which they have been shown to misuse.

Section 215 is only that. What about all the rest? That’s where the NSA uses its many ‘tools’, where it expends most of its efforts, and no one’s talking about that. No one’s even saying “thank you” to Edward Snowden for doing something really patriotic: Sacrificing himself for our right to privacy from the surveillance state.

Source:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/a-long-awaited-reform-to-the-usa-patriot-act/393197/


Comments (Page 1)
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on May 14, 2015

Personally I don't see what all the hype is about. Like I've said before, I have nothing to hide and if all people would think that way they would not have to worry about the NSA or any other government agency collecting data by whatever means necessary towards protecting lives. One single phone call or one single email setting up a terrorist strike being missed by the NSA or whomever could result in the massive loss of life. Cutting off that ability is merely promoting terrorists and allowing them an easy way to terrorize the human race. 

on May 14, 2015

^^^^^ 

on May 14, 2015

Without going into a long explaination of why, I agree with LightStar. 

In my estimation or opinion the majority of citizens have nothing in their back ground or activities that they are worried about losing privacy over if it is looked at.  Having had a career in the Military and working as a civilian for the DoD the government has available to it more than half of my life's information.  Big deal.  Even if I sat down and went over it more than likely it would be boring.

I can not take time out of my life to be concerned about folks that begin to sweat and their blood pressure goes up when ask "And what did you do today?"

Also, like yourself and the rest that may reply to this thread, this is just my opinion.  I don't ask that you agree with it, just accept that it's mine. 

on May 14, 2015

Oops

 

 

on May 14, 2015

Well...if we're gonna go down the "if you have nothing to hide" road...we should start allowing "random...no warrant" searches of people homes...I mean...if you have nothing to hide. For all we know you could be hiding Al Qaeda or a meth lab or a huge porn collection...(you a pervert?)...in your basement...and...since you have nothing to hide...everyone should be good with it.

 

Seriously people...is everyone in that much of a hurry to give away your right to privacy? Not me...stay the hell out of my life! Is some little comment..."if you have nothing to hide"...all it takes these days to make everyone bend over and give in? If that's the case...none of you deserve the freedom millions gave their lives for. Once you open that door there's no closing it and then the flood gates will open. Random anal searches will be next on the bill...I mean...if you have nothing to hide...bend over.

on May 14, 2015

WebGizmos

Well...if we're gonna go down the "if you have nothing to hide" road...we should start allowing "random...no warrant" searches of people homes...I mean...if you have nothing to hide. For all we know you could be hiding Al Qaeda or a meth lab in your basement...and...since you have nothing to hide...everyone should be good with it.

 

Seriously people...is everyone in that much of a hurry to give away your right to privacy? Not me...stay the hell out of my life! Is some little comment..."if you have nothing to hide"...all it takes these days to make everyone bend over and give in? If that's the case...none of you deserve the freedom millions gave their lives for. Once you open that door there's no closing it and then the flood gates will open. Random anal searches will be next on the bill...I mean...if you have nothing to hide.

That is not what is meant by nothing to hide. You are comparing nothing to hide with privacy and the 2 are different. I have nothing to hide as far as information goes, heck I could not even care less if someone has my banking info because they can't steal what I don't have. Just because I have nothing to hide does not mean I am about to give my privacy away. Try to come take a look in my basement for whatever reason and see how far you get, unless  of course I am put in restraints by bigger men than I. 

on May 14, 2015

I couldn't disagree more with Lightstar. The same people who distrust corporations and greedy CEOs are the same people who put undeserved trust into our government "leaders". Do you know the fine print of every law and regulation that has been put in place? Because ample evidence suggests every adult American unknowingly commits crimes every day. If the government were to decide to enforce those laws using their warrantless searches, you could very well find yourself with a fine, perhaps even jail time.

Why did the founders ratify the 4th amendment in the first place? They knew there would come a time when power hungry government leaders would want to perform unwarranted searches to silence their political opponents. Do you think there weren't dangers to the public back then? Of course there were! In Texas an armed off duty police officer just saved a bunch of lives because he had the training and firepower to stop a terrorist from killing a bunch of artists. He didn't need to monitor everyone's cell phones to do it.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

If you want to do so, go ahead, but don't force me to do it.

 

on May 14, 2015

LightStar

I have nothing to hide and if all people would think that way they would not have to worry about the NSA or any other government agency collecting data by whatever means necessary towards protecting lives.

Right, Tom. Just like J. Edgar Hoover's files...used to blackmail Congress and Presidents. 

We have the Bill of Rights for damned good reasons, and they have to do with having lived at the whim of a crazy despot. There's no going back to that, and I don't understand how anyone thinks any band of terrorists can take down the idea of America. If we had been true to those ideals, hadn't screwed foreign countries for greed, and had stood by allies and friends, maybe we'd be regarded differently. 

JuniorCrooks

I could not even care less if someone has my banking info because they can't steal what I don't have.

But they can buy an s-load of things and assume your identity and leave you in a hole so deep you'd have a lot more rice in your diet.

It isn't even about any of that "nothing to hide" nor "nothing to steal". It has to do with limiting the government to what it should be doing and keeping them the hell out of where they shouldn't be going in order to prevent it from usurping any or all of your rights.

Too many generations sacrificed their all to keep those rights sacrosanct, and no one, but no one has the right to give any of them away for the rest of us.

on May 14, 2015

JuniorCrooks

That is not what is meant by nothing to hide. You are comparing nothing to hide with privacy and the 2 are different. I have nothing to hide as far as information goes, heck I could not even care less if someone has my banking info because they can't steal what I don't have. Just because I have nothing to hide does not mean I am about to give my privacy away. Try to come take a look in my basement for whatever reason and see how far you get, unless of course I am put in restraints by bigger men than I.

Sorry Junior....but your missing the real point here. I should not have to explain anything whatsoever about my life....what's in my house or bank account regardless of what is or isn't there. Once you go down that route you might as well just walk around naked and not try to own anything. This is fear mongering and invasion of ones personal life in the worst way. What's the reason for this in the first  place? Because some demented politicians tells you so...and your just going to bend over for him or her? Seriously...think...think about the far reaching repercussions of just giving some unknown ass wipe politician your right to privacy on every level...just because he wants to instill some imagined or made up reason for intruding on your life. Thanks but no thanks...not in a millions years.

on May 14, 2015

I am as cynical as Doc, probably more.  Trust no one in government to ever do the 'right' thing.  You'll almost never go wrong with that approach.

on May 14, 2015

Personally I don't see what all the hype is about. Like I've said before, I have nothing to hide and if all people would think that way they would not have to worry about the NSA or any other government agency collecting data by whatever means necessary towards protecting lives. One single phone call or one single email setting up a terrorist strike being missed by the NSA or whomever could result in the massive loss of life. Cutting off that ability is merely promoting terrorists and allowing them an easy way to terrorize the human race.

 

While I'm not particularly worried about the NSA tapping my phone,(me telling a PAC to go fuck themselves when they call at 9am is as dirty as it gets) it's amusing that you consider your liberty to be promoting terrorism.

 

Government is filled with people, and people are assholes.  Do you think that just because some guy works at the NSA, he's going to be a perfect person and not exploit juicy tidbits, spy on his ex, or ruin his neighbors life over dog shit in his yard?  This shit happens all the time, they pass it off as some sort of workplace behavior issue instead of imprisoning them for the felonies they've committed.  You don't need something to hide for an invasion of your private communications to cause you serious grief.  Telling your wife that your boss is an asshole could get you fired because your neighbor is a bit of a lunatic, works at the NSA, and hates your dog for barking at him.

 

The Branch Davidians are a great example of this.  Koresh was a nut, his followers were nuts, but they were also pretty harmless and generally law abiding nuts at face, involved in a legal gun business with no evidence to the contrary.  Several months before the raid, the AFT was invited to come to the compound and do an inspection, by Koresh himself, when agents were conversing with his gun dealer, the agents wouldn't even talk to him.  Later, the ATF obtained an unneccessary warrant for their raid by misleading a judge on the activities they were partaking in, and a huge convoy of heavily armed agents and vehicles that are basically tanks, roll up on these paranoid nuts who think the end is nigh after refusing to communicate with them and inspect their business when invited to do so.  Is it any surprise that they got the completely reasonable idea that the government had come to kill them all for no reason?  I might get the idea myself if I didn't know they just wanted to do a perp walk and march them all out in cuffs before giving them all their guns back a few months later.

 

Our government has already gone dark side in a major way, and it's not something new to the patriot act.  The ATF worries me a hell of a lot more than the terrorists do, we can go and stomp them into a greasy spot for bothering us.  The ATF, on the other hand, happens to be "we" in the first place, so we're sorta fucked when it comes to stomping them into a greasy spot.  They basically do whatever the hell they want to, and the government backs them up on it no matter how many people die as a result of their felony laced fund raising efforts.

on May 15, 2015

So, so glad I don't live in the US, where power a hungry government wants to know when you last blew your nose, ate, drank and shit.... tho with its new data retention laws forcing telcos to keep our information for 2 years plus, I have no doubt that the Australian government is following suit and doing heaps of sneaky shit behind our backs.  And is it really about national security? 

To some extent, perhaps so, but much of the retained data will be of little or no consequence to national security.  No, the retained data will have more significance to corporate entities and government, and could be used in ways that are not in the national interest, but against individuals for whatever reasons.  I have nothing to hide... today, but who knows in a few weeks time, a few months or next year.  By then I could be suspect No 1 for all I know... and not because I'd done anything different from today, but because government moved the goal posts... or because a corporate entity discovered a way to accuse me of something that's legal today but not tomorrow.

So, Lightstar and others who think having nothing to hide is enough protection, please think again.  Today you may be safe, but tomorrow may be a whole different ball game.

on May 15, 2015

starkers

So, Lightstar and others who think having nothing to hide is enough protection, please think again.  Today you may be safe, but tomorrow may be a whole different ball game.

 

All I am saying is that I have led and continue to lead what I feel is a good and clean life, so I have no reason to fear my own government at this time. Granted, that could change, but not at present.

on May 15, 2015

LightStar

All I am saying is that I have led and continue to lead what I feel is a good and clean life, so I have no reason to fear my own government at this time. Granted, that could change, but not at present.

Although I fully believe that you have led that life, Tom, your conclusions from that are not correct (if only from the naivete of the truly good).

on May 15, 2015

I agree with Doc and Psychoak.  Now to see what people think of Jade Helm 15!  Tanks rolling down someones street.

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