Sadly, without morality there is no law unless it is economic law.

Moreover, without morality, civilisation ceases to exist.

And without morality, humankind becomes just another beast.

So to exclude morality from the courts we revert back to a system of injustice.

In other words, mob rule... and a government prepared to engage in wholesale executions to maintain power and its position at the pinnacle of the food chain.

While many equate morality to religion, and yes, they can go hand in hand as religion attempts to create order within, religion and morality are not mutually exclusive.

Religion would struggle to exist in the absence of mrality, but that is not so in reverse.

Morality can and does exist in the absence of religion.

HUman decency is the prime core of morality, and without it criminal law becomes a farcical misnomer where the eveil and morally bankrupt pay for their innocence and continue to spread corruption like it were butter.

Unfortunately, that still happens in an imperfect world where many bandy the word morality as being a lifestyle yet fail to live it it any respect.

It is therefore a fool's folly to suggest that morality be banished to religion and allow the worst of human dregs to rise to the top and run society in a manner that is devoid of that which separates us from the savages who ruled through abject cruelty and having the biggest club.

Morality is the fabric of society and what holds us together.  Without it we may as well return to the caves and drag our women around by their hair.

It's all well and good for morality to be the fabric of society.  Until one group's morality is in fundamental conflict with another's.  Borders, language and culture matter.  The fabric of a society shreds when it's a free-for-all.

I couldn't disagree more strongly.  Sure 'morality' maybe should be "the fabric of society and what holds us together.." (if each 'society' lived in a vacuum) but I would argue that that is most certainly not the case in the world we live in.  Morality may (and likely does as it is evident) come into play on an individual case-by-case basis in the lives of many, but I would be surprised at any real evidence of it's existence as "the fabric of society" in today's global world.

I say scrap morality and focus on ethics.

Morality has too close an association with religion.

Since 'ethics' finds its root in the Greek word 'ethos' (moral character, habit, nature, custom) is there really a need to differentiate?  Besides it's not like religion owns morality.  Hell if that were the case the world truly would be in a sad, sad much worse state.......hehe    

EDIT:

Edited for Daiwa! 

And... it's not?!?!

Daiwa

reply 51

And... it's not?!?!

Well excuse me!  For once I was trying to not only see the dark side of humanity........geez!  

EDIT:

There....I edited my other post. 

The actual definition doesn't matter. It's how people (the masses) perceive it.

It's too easy to push buttons when certain words are used.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-Are-you-a-victim-of-push-button-phrases

There's no excuse for you. 

   My wife agrees wholeheartedly with your assessment! 

I knew there would be disagreement with regard to my thoughts on morality.

It was expected because most fail to grasp the concept of morality.

Strangely enough, however, we each are inherently born with it.

Somewhere inside of us we know it is wrong to kill; wrong to steal; wrong to commit adultery; wrong to sexually abuse/harm children.

We know this not from religious indoctrination, or some cultural belief.  We just know it is wrong.

There need not be national borders/international differences in morality... there need NOT be a religious or cultural reason for morality.

All there need be is human decency, and to listen to our inner selves when we are tempted to do wrong.

I sure as hell need not go into a church, synagogue or temple to discover morality, I was born with it.

I was not indoctrinated by my parents through some religious ideology.... both are/were atheists.

As I stated, morality can and does exist in the absence of religion, so for me, tying religion to it is just an excuse to argue, raise conflict and find reason not to comply with the ideal of others.

Without our morality, the negative aspects of humankind have room to grow and flourish... crime and corruption become the norm and the innocent ALL become potential victims.

So yeah, extract the religious/cultural inferences and let morality/conscience be our compasses to bettering our lives.

You weren't 'born with it'.  The only thing you're born with is 'animal instinct'.

Common sense, human nature, morality, and all the other equivalents are LEARNED either by association, education, experience or trial-and-error.

A willingness to be a part of [your] society determines how closely you follow its rules/ideals/mores.

Those who don't will often regard themselves as 'individuals', 'rebels' or even 'superior than thou' but more often than not they are simply categorized as criminals and treated as such.

Animal instinct is what protects your offspring/family/breeding partner/s.  How vigourously you do that determines how violent or even 'immoral' you may be perceived by others.

Self-control, reason, common sense, decency, morality ....they're all learned.

The only bit you got right is there's no need for religion [of any flavour] to be involved in the process of learning...

I am going to have to side with Jafo on this one. Racism is taught, as is acceptance, violence is taught, just like gentleness, etc, etc.

Dr. Gabor Mate on Attachment and Conscious Parenting

On the other hand, Charlie Chaplin has an inspirational message along the lines of what Starkers is talking about.

I can watch this one repeatedly, and it still gives me goosebumps.

Like I said, most fail to grasp the concept.

And like somebody once said, there is no point trying to teach humanity about its essence when the point of redemption passed and all that prevails in inhumanity, devoid of humility, morality and conscience as a compass to guide it.

I will admit, I don't like many people because so few deserve a second thought... and hardly any merit a third.

For anyone to warrant a fourth thought, well they have had to be one exceptional human being.

However, given all the lives that have passed before us throughout history, the percentage needle has barely moved with regard to those I managed to find any genuine resect for, such is my disdain and disgust for the majority of arsewipes claiming to be a part of the human race

For mine, 95% of the world's population could be instantly wiped from the face of the planet, such has been its failure to behave in a manner deserving of an existence.

If anyone gets a clear indication from my posts here that I dislike the majority of animals that bear a strong resemblance to homosapiens, don't bother second guessing.  I probably have greater compsassion for a pit of venomous reptiles given some the abysmal specimens of the human race I've had the misfortune to enounter, know of

And why do I feel the human race is a non-redeeemable collection of scum dwellers who consider themselves first and foremost? 

Because they discarded their morals, decency and scruples for greed, self-importance and a belief that crime, corruption and impropriety is the way forward.

Another reason I dislike humans so much?  Way too many bewlive they have a god-given right to this, that or whatever  BOLLOCKS!!!   There's no such thing as a god-given right..  Sadly, however, too many of those who decry/denounce religion, etc, are the ones who insist they have this and that god-given right..

So yeah, add hypocrisy to the growing list of human traits which deserve abhorrence and our perpetual disgust.

Anyway,stay tuned because tomorrows lecture will concern assassinating 99% of the world's objectionable leaders, getting away with it and installing a world government run by far-sighted giraffes who are bound to stand out in the crowd and see it coming.

Well, it's not so simple as "are we born with these, or aren't we?" Things like acceptance, morality, decency, and yes, racism too, are indeed things we're born with, at least to some degree.

Human beings are social animals, and for a social animal to be successful as a species, it must have significantly different behavioural patterns than a non-social animal.  Compare a lion (social) versus a leopard (non-social), or a wolf (social) versus a bear (non-social).  The social animals have ingrained in them behaviour based on the idea that their own success is intimately tied to the success of those around them.  However, that's typically limited to their pride/pack/whatever, and they also have ingrained in them both a strong devotion to their own group and a fierce competition with other groups.  Such is the origin of intra-species "racism" - it's essentially tribalism, to ensure that the genes of those in your group prevail, since they're more closely tied to your own genes.  Modern human society is much more complex than the tribal environment where these behaviours originated, and these concepts of "us" and "them" get expressed in vastly different ways by different people as we try to adapt to this new reality.

Now, human beings have an incredible ability to learn, well beyond that of most other animals.  That allows an individual human, based on environment, upbringing, experience, etc. to build additional morals on top of those baseline ones, and it also allows them to sweep aside those morals.  More so than any other species, we have the ability to override our behavioural tendencies.  But they're still there, and still play a big role in modern society.