Ramblings of an old Doc

 

The Justice Dep’t. filed a secret lawsuit against Google to try to force it to give up user data without a search warrant: This after a different court ruled the process unconstitutional. There’s nothing short of the First and Fourth Amendments at stake here. This is yet more fallout from the Patriot Act.

The Federal prosecutors are truly determined to keep the “right” to warrantless searches of your data. Google is just as determined to prevent it, terming the Justice Dep’t. demands illegal.

The Justice Dept’s demands center around “National Security Letters” (NSLs) which was a key part of the Patriot Act (2001) that allowed the FBI to demand information from Internet providers without any Federal search warrant. U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero has barred the FBI from invoking that portion of the law in the future, saying the mandatory gag orders amount to an "unconstitutional prior restraint of speech in violation of the First Amendment."

“The 2001 law requires Internet service providers and any other type of communication provider--including telephone companies--to comply with secret "national security letters" from the FBI. Those letters can ask for information about subscribers--including home addresses, what telephone calls were made, e-mail subject lines and logs of what Web sites were visited.

The recipient of a national security letter (NSL) is forever gagged against disclosing its existence "to any person"--a strict requirement that the ACLU argued could not be squared with the U.S. Constitution.

“All but the most mettlesome and undaunted NSL recipients would consider themselves effectively barred from consulting an attorney or anyone else who might advise them otherwise," Marrero concluded, "as well as bound to absolute silence about the existence of the NSL...For the reasonable NSL recipient confronted with the NSL's mandatory language and the FBI's conduct related to the NSL, resistance is not a viable option."  – c|net

What’s the size of the problem? An IG report found the FBI made 50,000 such NSL demands (sorry, but a “request”, it isn’t) and 97% had the “mandatory gag order” attached. NSLs can demand user profile information, but the law does not permit them to be used to obtain the text of e-mail messages or most log files, which they did do (apparently).

Google has fought this in the past (2006) and mostly won.

The Justice Dep’t has filed a “petition to enforce” in Manhattan in order to circumvent Google's right to due process and Judge Illston (see my prior article URL below) which has only partially succeeded as Judge Illston has promised to revisit the subject should Google desire.

Also, it should be noted that the Justice Dep’t/FBI has many tools to deal with requests for information which (however) require judicial review, i.e. subpoenas, court orders, search warrants, wiretap orders, pen registers, sneak and peek warrants, and surveillance under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

You should read the source article here:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57587005-38/justice-department-tries-to-force-google-to-hand-over-user-data/?tag=nl.e496&s_cid=e496&ttag=e496

I think that if there’s a “ticking bomb”, then that’s one dire situation and a judge can issue an emergency order. Mostly, it would appear these NSLs aren’t being used that way and the request for even more (i.e. the headers, etc. information) is an illegal abuse.

More: The portion of the Patriot Act denying the right to legal opinion through a lawyer is patently unconstitutional and must be redrafted. Also, this “petition to enforce” and the petitioner should receive a judge’s ire, since it is clearly an abuse designed to neutralize due process.

Our government was designed to work a certain way to protect citizens. It would be the ultimate irony if al-Qaida succeeds in destroying that by causing such legislation.

What do you think? That means reflection, and not a ‘knee jerk’ reaction.

Note: You can view my prior article regarding NSLs and the “mandatory gag orders” here:

http://drjbhl.joeuser.com/article/441288/National_Security_Letters_and_Gag_Orders_Ruled_Unconstitutional


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jun 01, 2013



Quoting Scoutdog, reply 13Google is doing the right thing, and it's very refreshing to see them doing so.

Ah....but 'doing the right thing'....for the wrong reasons....is that truly noble?

Nope,

Just quaintly convenient....

 

 

 

on Jun 01, 2013

Don't forget: If they cooperate knowing or strongly suspecting illegality of the info request, they become liable for damages.

DrJBHL
Don't forget: If they cooperate knowing or strongly suspecting illegality of the info request, they become liable for damages.


I think it will be a tough process figuring out what caused such a leak or if that information realy left the servers from google.
if something like that would occur they could make a it public and simply say that there was a server issue and data has been lost. :3
In the end the costs would be to high to trace back and find the evil. >Just blaiming them isnt enough yoiu have to prove it if not they can always change the AGB and say that they take no responsability in data loss or theft.

on Jun 01, 2013

I'm not bothered much by what they do. I have nothing to hide

Though I can imagine some people would like to hide their search history. Who wants anyone to know they search for Justin Bieber or Taylor Swift? Awkward or what...

on Jun 01, 2013

Fuzzy Logic
I'm not bothered much by what they do. I have nothing to hide

You're also a bit outside their jurisdiction, but I'd bet New Scotland Yard "cooperates" with them.

on Jun 01, 2013

Bloody history of mandkind should prove to anyone without any doubt that when there is power, there is abuse.

 

This is the reason for democracy and Separation of powers.

 

Without it, there is no right.... no justice and no freedom.

 

It is imperative that no part of the goverment becomes to much power. Only the seperation of powers insures that the rights of the people are respected.

 

The tendency to limit or outright remove the civil rights in the recent years is a severe risk for our democracy... for more dangerous than all terrorist of this world together.

 

LightStar
To tell you the truth Doc, I don't really care if the federal government looks at my data if in the overall scheme of things it prevents terrorists and the crazies from doing illegal acts.



If you have nothing to hide there is nothing for them to find. If you do have something to hide, then I am glad you got caught.

 

We will see if you still have this opinion when an FBI member decides he doesnt like your face.... and sends you right to Guantanamo. Fair Trial? Forget it.

 

It is a very foolish notion to think that a state not limited anymore by laws and constituion is not a threat to all our well being.

 

The way from democracy to dicatorship is much shorter than many people realize.

 

The state DOES NOT need to know everything. Nor can he have absolute power.

 

Secret lawsuits and the like.... they dont fit into a democracy.

 

 

All this tightening of security laws is made 5 % for anti terrorism.... and 95 % for removing annoying civil rights.

 

Freedom of speech sucks.... from a politicians point of view..... all those dirtly little secrets becoming public knowledge.

 

As do many other rights of the people.

 

 

At first... they arrest the terrorists without trial.....

 

then the heavy criminals.....

 

then the criminals....

 

and then the OPPOSITION.

 

Dont like Obamas/insert any other president here   stance of a topic? Sure... go ahead... complain about it.....

 

The next day the FBI knocks at your door..... says something about HIGH TREASON and TERRORISM and throws you into jail for the next 40 years. Of course without a trial. After all we dont want to give terrorists a fair hearing in court, right? 

 

Just sucks if you are not one, but have enemies in the wrong places.

 

 

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin

 

State powers have to be kept on  short leash under strict supervision from the people, this is the only thing standing between freedom and tyranny.

 

on Jun 01, 2013

Is your 'enter' key dysfunctional?

on Jun 01, 2013

Gotta pay that sang froid.

on Jun 01, 2013

Drat. Ya beat me to it.

 

Looking over that post, I'm seeing about three actual grammatically-functional sentences.

 

on Jun 01, 2013

Why does the US government bother with lengthy trials when it can hire a few Chinese to hack all the info instead?  A mystery I'll never understand...

on Jun 02, 2013

Because That Would Be Wrong.

on Jun 09, 2013

on Jun 09, 2013

^ Indeed true.

In an ideal world there would be no need...yet we all demand a modicum of security, if not for ourselves then for our families. "To that end governments are instituted among men...". 

Men do need to watch them like hawks...especially the "secret" parts which forbid they even be acknowledged or reviewed.

on Jun 09, 2013

there's always a few that play the black and white game to understand today's complex issues, makes it easier for them make simple decisions.

the only reason that I believe that goggle doesn't want to fork over this data is that at some point what actually is being data mined will come out and show just how "evil" they are.

on Jun 09, 2013


there's always a few that play the black and white game to understand today's complex issues, makes it easier for them make simple decisions.

the only reason that I believe that goggle doesn't want to fork over this data is that at some point what actually is being data mined will come out and show just how "evil" they are.

Agreed...it's all about the grays. As an excellent skinner Greg you certainly know the spectrum of gray. It's very hard to come to a consensus when some play the black and white game. I wouldn't want to be put in the position of our leaders who on one hand are charged with our security and on the other with their oath "to preserve, protect and defend" our Constitution. Whether they do one or the other, there will be someone to "blame". It's gotten to a truly impossible place. Cooperation and compromise are myths. Power is what it's all about. 

I have no easy solution to all this. I do know that the surveillance we undergo is nothing compared to other places. The American companies that created this software did test and sharpen them abroad.

on Jun 10, 2013

DrJBHL
As an excellent skinner Greg

wow, thanks Seth although I usually use adjectives such as adequate, pretty damn good or knowledgeable.

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