I did pose it as a question and even stated that this was my assumption as to how I interpreted the responce to my statement which was cut. The entire sentence ...

So please tell me how readers are supposed to interpret this. That in a theoretical vote on this issue only the creators of IP and the "takers" of IP would vote?

"In actuality the only people likely to feel impact"

Gotta love that word "Likely".

No...that there are only two types of people....those that do...and those that teach.....sorry....in this instance those that create property that may be stolen....and those who do not.

In any microcosm there are givers and takers.  Those who only ever 'give' are considered a greater benefit to society in any of its permutations than those who ONLY take.

So...

poll the members of The Pirate Bay and you'll get a resounding "fuck them all the bastards are taking from us what we have every right to take for ourselves"

or

poll the victims of Rapidshare and Torrent-your-shit-because-we-can [thankyou, Internet] and you will get a diametrically opposed view.

The shit-faced brats who troll the Pirate Bay can rot in hell...they have no rights.

It doesn't take any form of "God" to determine that.

Just get the Disney Channel to push THAT bunch of lemmings off the cliff and I'll buy the popcorn.

Take a look at this:

'Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont) proposed sweeping digital privacy protections Tuesday that would require the government, for the first time, to get a probable-cause warrant to obtain e-mail and other content stored in the cloud.

Leahy’s proposal (PDF) would nullify a provision of the 1986 Electronic Communications Privacy Act that allows the government to acquire a suspect’s e-mail or other stored content from an Internet service provider without showing probable cause that a crime was committed, as long as the content has been stored on a third-party server for 180 days or more. The government had only needed to show that it has “reasonable grounds to believe” the information would be useful in an investigation.

It would require the government to get a probable-cause warrant to obtain real-time cellphone location data going forward. However, it would still not require authorities to get a warrant to obtain past cellphone location data of a suspect.

And the measure would also expand, or at least clarify, the information the government may obtain with so-called National Security Letters. They allow the FBI, without a court order, to obtain telecommunication, financial and credit records relevant to a government investigation. The Leahy bill adds “electronic communication identifiable information” and strikes “electronic communication transactional records.”

“It is not appropriate for the government to be able to get detailed information on everybody who you communicated with,” Kevin Bankston, a privacy lawyer with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said by telephone."  Arstechnica

I see that things would be better than existing law (very outdated) and significantly better than what exists. So, using your argument...

Also, Dr Guy - While I do respect your view, I disagree about the "Any law.." part. Laws are compromises. THIS isn't even a law yet. There'll be changes, and probably significant ones along the way... even if I were to agree about it being a bad law, which I don't, I'd suggest waiting and observing and giving input along the way.

Indeed!

Thanks for the clarification Jafo.

I had thought from a previous thread that the Pirate Bay had been fined a lot of money and ordered shut down or even prison, cant remember all the details. I did just googled TPB and sure enough it is still there so I can definitely understand your frustration and as Doc has stated, will wait to see what changes are made and the final wording of the bill.

I am most cirtain though that as the USG has done in the past, this will be abused to shut down sites that have little to do with IP. Again my point from a previous post.

myfist0 ...as Doc noted in #108 the status quo re Govt powers/controls isn't in 'a good place' at the moment...and this bill actually looks like an attempt to drag legislation screaming into this millennium, rather than the last.

IP, warez, etc...all equivalent abuses of people's property has been facilitated on a massive scale by the net...at a far greater and more severe impact than has been controllable by existing Laws....that date back to when Adam was a pup.

It's let's-play-catchup-time.

Ignoring the children who cry because they actually HAVE TO BUY a CD....just like we all did/do with records, etc [those black vinyl things]....piracy was non-existent with vinyl....no-one [was likely to] own a record press to make bootlegs.

Along cam computers...and CD burners...then DVD burners...and associated hacking software and every man and his dog was becoming a mini 'producer' of rekkids and moofies ..... something the system had not catered for/planned against.

Ever since the advent of compact cassettes real ownership of property and publishing RIGHTS has been lost to the thief.

Call it whatever you like...it's still theft.

Wear rose-coloured glasses and all you will be seeing is red-coloured theft.

The legal system is a sloth at best....and has no hope in hell of keeping abreast of piracy, but can only play catch-up as best they can.

Actually, on this point you are incredibly wrong. While Vinyl was the standard medium for most residential users, magnetic tapes in the form of Reel to Reel tapes were quite common for those who sought to record and distribute audio content. In fact, during the Vietnam war over 40 years ago, the military run radio station was running a full on piracy ring using such magnetic tapes.

Under a broader perspective, this form of "theft" has actually spurned overall economic development. Consider for a moment the iPod. This device ultimately capitalized on the predominance of IP theft saving Apple from ruin, and even though apple eventually produced a semi-legitimate front, iTunes, they have done virtually nothing to enforce IP protections.

So in your mind, since the horrible masses finally got a cheap and effective way of duplicating information, they have done nothing but destroy the money making potential of the corporations. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe technology and ideas are not supposed to be nailed to the ground? Since Jafo has made all of his art without any help or the intervention of any ideas/works that might constitute the IP of someone else, then Jafo must be a completely insular human in the middle of nowhere. Otherwise, the truth is that Art like all other human endeavors is a process based on years of struggle by not just one man, but millions, passed along from person to person until reaching the individual artist. Imagine the world, wherein a school wanting to teach Mozart to its music students had to contact and license that form. Wealthy schools would afford it, while poor stuents would simply never learn of such a great musician.

I remember how cassettes were supposed to bring down the industry.  I remember someone telling me that recording MY LP onto a cassette to play in my car was a crime and sorry but I had to laugh. I own about 4500 of those old lps and converted them all to mp3 and are on my hard drive. Do I share it online? Hell No, I would use up my allotted bandwidth in 1 day. I suppose the software sites that allow me to convert MY lps to mp3 will also disappear soon even though in Canada I am not breaking the law, .... yet.

Oh God...here we go yet again with those two key words....'information' and 'corporations'.

First...it's not 'information' it's individual creative endeavour. Get it right.

Second, it's not ONLY 'corporations' that have their 'money making potential' destroyed...it's anyone whose property is taken, wait, I'm ever so sorry....information that is taken....wait...sorry again....information that is distributed freely for the greater good.

If it's my stuff...I'm NOT going to give it to you....and I'm not going to let you take it because you think it's the altruistic greater good that MUST be served.

Here...take the shirt off my back....might have writing on it....might be able to call it INFORMATION.

TAKE my money....buy a book...wait...take my money...buy a crowbar...break into a shop....and steal a book...it's DISTRIBUTION OF INFORMATION....

While you are at it...make it an effing BIG shop....owned by a CORPORATION...and you're a winner.

wow...

Free press.

I do think that I do not like this bill.

Ima play the "law of unintended sideeffects" card.

Reel to reel was far less mainstream than compact cassette would be later.  The lack of portability and scarcity of multi decks meant piracy via magnetic medium really was effectively non-existent, no matter how you may wish to spin it.

First CD burners were horrendously expensive....wasn't till the price was 'low' enough for a pirate to really profit that it all took off....

Sounds Like Wiki Leaks   and they use torrents 

All released leaks archived

2010-11-28

Due to recent attacks on our infrastructure, we’ve decided to make sure everyone can reach our content. As part of this process we’re releasing archived copy of all files we ever released - that’s almost 20,000 files. The archive linked here contains a torrent generated for each file and each directory.

So the gov didnt care about torrents until wikileaks. lol. 

Are documents from Gitmo IP?

I had a crowbar used to break into my house and steal my belongings, Ima start a lobby group to remove all crowbars off the shelf.  

Guess I can somewhat see both sides….

On the one hand, if I spent a considerable amount of time working on, coding, developing and marketing a program, pretty much staking my (and in essence my families) future on it only to have it show up a few days after it’s release on a torrent site and I’m no longer seeing a profit from my hard work, I’d be pissed and wanting SOMETHING done about it. I challenge anyone to HONESTLY say they wouldn’t care if it were THEIR livelihood, product or service stolen because I believe you really would if the shoe were actually on your foot….

On the other hand, the federal government seriously *ucks up everything they get control of and their good intentions tend to escalate from ”oh, we just want a little nibble” to “we want the whole damn pie and all future pies baked from now ‘til the end of time”.  We’ll control the size, measurements, ingredients, cooking time, portions, pricing, EVERYTHING but no need to worry, we have everything under CONTROL. Besides that I like cherry pie…American pies’ got too much pork in it for my taste… 

Discussions like this always will have strong stances for each side with most folks being able to take one side or the other. 

For me though these discussions always seem to stray away from or just ignore some basic facts.  The one underlying and undeniable fact here is that from day one (way back in the caves that we are only a short distance out of) there has always been the mindset in a few folks that if someone had something they like or better yet wanted that they should be able to take it without any recourse.

That's the bottom line folks, and because of this is why societies attempt to have rules or laws that provide for compensation when someone takes something that isn't theirs. 

You mean like international law that makes it illegal to invade a sovereign country for there resources? ROFL

Care, yes.  Screw myself into the ground in an attempt to prevent it?

Uncle has already fucked the real world into the ground with well meaning idiocy intended to help prevent crime.  The result is a two week waiting period when a pretty girl is being threatened by a deranged stalker that likes to watch the lights go out.  But don't worry, she can just get a restraining order!