Ramblings of an old Doc

 

In light of the recent events in Egypt where we saw an “Emergency Off Switch” used for the first time, my memory was jarred.

Last year, Senator Joe Lieberman (Independent, Connecticut) proposed just such a switch. He did so because of concerns regarding a cyberattack on the USA.

Just two hours ago, NYConvergence (a tech magazine for the NY, NJ and CT area) reported Sen. Lieberman wants to re-propose this legislation ( LINK ).

There are several ways to look at this: Security, freedom, abuse potential… and others.

I’d like to hear what you folks think: Do you favor an Internet “On-Off” switch? Under what conditions? Who should have that power and when? Who should be able to stop or review such a decision?


Comments (Page 2)
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on Feb 01, 2011

It seems to me that any attack as part of cyber warfare that is sufficiently powerful to require a complete national internet shutdown, would be powerful enough to circumvent the shutdown.
Or, for that matter, a complete national internet shutdown may be exactly what the cyberattackers want to accomplish.

on Feb 01, 2011

- It would be pretty easy for the US Government to shut down the internet for the majority of people in the US.  With legislation backed by huge fines and jail time, they can get US based ISPs shut down - just like Egypt did.  It would take longer due to larger resistance from businesses, but it is definitely feasible.

- We would work around it.  We would use phones to dial out into foreign ISPs, and in the meantime we would see massive riots as twelve million WOW subscribers took to the streets.

- Could the US shut down the entire net for everyone everywhere?  No, not without resorting to DDOS attacks and other nefarious schemes.  They could make it difficult by taking themselves offline, but thats about the end of it.

- Why would we take ourselves offline?  I have no idea.  Like was said earlier, I can see making certain systems a closed system, but I can't see pulling the whole thing offline a good idea.

on Feb 01, 2011

Heavenfall
If you want a revolution on your hands, take away the porn.

 

Seems like a good idea.

 

Scoutdog

It seems to me that any attack as part of cyber warfare that is sufficiently powerful to require a complete national internet shutdown, would be powerful enough to circumvent the shutdown.Or, for that matter, a complete national internet shutdown may be exactly what the cyberattackers want to accomplish.

 

Or they could be trying to cyberattack and want us to stay up to allow them to get information and then shut us down.

It's all really confusing isn't it?

My philosophy is: Deal with whatever happens when it happens.

I understand the wish to "be prepared," but that can be a bad thing, spending money on something ridiculous. For example, nuclear war is more worrysome than a cyberattack.

on Feb 01, 2011

So much of what we get on a daily basis as news is really meant as a sound bit opportunity so someone of self importance can keep their name/image whatever out there.

I would say this, if in fact an actual 'Emergency Off Switch' is ever instituted then the way to combat it is...................not use the Internet.  That would drive them crazy trying to figure out what the rest of us were up to and talking about.     

on Feb 01, 2011

Not using the internet? THAT'S JUST UN-AMERICAN. If you stop using the internet, THE TERRORISTS WIN. Now just go back online and let us sniff all your details and map your habits, and don't worry! If there is any danger - or the idea of any danger - we can instantly shut it off. I'm sorry, we don't understand the meaning of hypocrisy.

God, I love sarcasm.

on Feb 01, 2011

Philly0381
So much of what we get on a daily basis as news is really meant as a sound bit opportunity so someone of self importance can keep their name/image whatever out there.

I would say this, if in fact an actual 'Emergency Off Switch' is ever instituted then the way to combat it is...................not use the Internet.  That would drive them crazy trying to figure out what the rest of us were up to and talking about.     

"The Switch" obviously exists in Egypt, Philly. I have very few doubts it exists here as well. Do you seriously think the Gov't. of the US, the DoD, CIA, NSA, etc. have fewer technological alternatives than the Egyptian Gov't.?

There are certainly work arounds, but would you be anxious to turn on your machine during a cyberattack? Would you be anxious to use a foreign ISP during a state of national emergency? Have you thought of those possibilities/eventualities? Anyone?

on Feb 01, 2011

Do you seriously think the Gov't. of the US, the DoD, CIA, NSA, etc. have fewer technological alternatives than the Egyptian Gov't.?
The US also has a lot more people and a lot more corporations in a more open and active economy. Egypt was able to strong-arm ISPs in a way the US might not be able to. I don't think either nation has much in the way of information-warfare capability. (Remember, gigantormous budgets do not equate to competence)

There are certainly work arounds, but would you be anxious to turn on your machine during a cyberattack? Would you be anxious to use a foreign ISP during a state of national emergency? Have you thought of those possibilities/eventualities? Anyone?
I wouldn't be unduly concerned. It's not like a 16-year-old kid on a laptop in central Ohio is a high-value target. Using a foreign ISP in a state of "national emergency" doesn't bother me either, because I doubt they would actually become involved. Depending on the nature of the crisis, foreign service providers would probably end up being the most reliable.

on Feb 01, 2011

G3mpi3
It's stuff like this that makes me angry. It seems like the government just wants to take more and more freedoms away from us. This is a trend that usually doesn't end well.....

People shouldn't be afraid of their government......The government should be afraid of the people.

 

Its not the government per say, they are us after all. But certain types of individuals who gain too much power for themselves. The USA should really have more than a two party system. Turn from being a republic to a true democracy instead. The people have more of a direct say in a democracy..... In Canada the government fears the people.....

on Feb 01, 2011

Good Topic Doc. 

First, a kill switch for Egypt (or even China) is possible because of the way the Internet was implemented in those countries.  But the way they can do it is not possible for the US.  The Internet was created and DESIGNED in the USA to be redundant, and in most respects, it is.  Other countries "tapped" into the Internet, so the government just has to kill the tap.

However, for all intents and purposes, if the government was given the authority, it could effectively shut down the Internet to all but the most diehard geeks.  How?

The street signs for the Internet are maintained by a core of companies.  And if they were to shut down their servers, no one could get anywhere unless they knew the IP address of where they are going!  DNS people.  And that is the achilees heel for the effective shutting of the internet.  If the Root servers are shut down, you are going no where.

DHS has already done that by basically pulling some sites out of the DNS (supposed pirate sites).  Bit Torrent has said they were looking at creating a P2P DNS for those sites shut down by DHS - and it is doable, but so far that is just a nice idea.  it has not been implemented.

So Obama's "Kill switch" would be to pull the plug on the DNS servers.  That would shut down the internet for not only the USA, but the world (with the exception of their country codes root domains).

Should the government have such authority?  No.  Government abuses everything it is allowed to do.  If you cede that power to them, you have just lost another part of your rights, freedoms and liberties.

on Feb 01, 2011

"The Switch" obviously exists in Egypt, Philly. I have very few doubts it exists here as well. Do you seriously think the Gov't. of the US, the DoD, CIA, NSA, etc. have fewer technological alternatives than the Egyptian Gov't.?

Well you may be correct, but there is no doubt that the US is far behind many contries as far as technology. If anyone has doubts about this just Google "world leaders in technolory"

 

There are certainly work arounds, but would you be anxious to turn on your machine during a cyberattack? Would you be anxious to use a foreign ISP during a state of national emergency? Have you thought of those possibilities/eventualities? Anyone?

If there was ever a cyber-attack what is the worst thing that could happen to a personal computer, you lose what is on your computer. They wouldn't be interested in what you have on it as they would already have all the main institutions. As far as turning it on during the attack I see it as two possibilites. One being that attack shuts down all the communitations at one time and the second being most people would know its in progress and shut down their own system. If one has already been affected then they wouldn't be able to got on the Internet anyway.

The answers are endless to this question and I have no more because I don't have the answers either only my opinion. However it all started with the AH Senator Joe Lieberman who doesn't know or have answers either.

 

 

on Feb 01, 2011

It would be funny if it already existed, and senator was just not high up enough on totem pole to know about it?

 

on Feb 01, 2011

So Obama's "Kill switch" would be to pull the plug on the DNS servers. That would shut down the internet for not only the USA, but the world (with the exception of their country codes root domains).
Liebermann. Not Obama. This bill is being pushed by Senator Joe Liebermann, independent of Connecticut. I don't actually know if Obama has made any statements on this issue whatsoever.

on Feb 01, 2011

Okay. My two cents. First, good ole Uncle Sam has had for some time now the ability to 'shut down' as it were, the internet but not as it is commonly understood in terms of shutting down. The technology was developed side by side 'with' the internet. Uncle Sam never ever does something without having an out already in place. The government can't shut it down as in cutting people off from one another but he can control the where and when and to whom a user may go. There is constant monitoring of the net after 9/11. The ISP's are required, just like the FCC rules, to relinquish control during a state of emergency or cooperate with any government agency that happens to hold priority. The government isn't stupid. They know that shutting down something so vast would instantly set off protests everywhere and for good reason. you don't maintain control by giving the people a reason to take that control away from you. As for a cyber attack. That is far more likely than a nuclear exchange. A cyber attack targets communications. An atom bomb targets people. You can use one to trigger the other but to what purpose. Why destroy the very thing you want to control. You can't control the hearts and minds of dead people. A lesson Uncle Sam is only now beginning to learn. So yeah. When push comes to shove Uncle Sam can shut it down in a heartbeat. You just won't know it.   

on Feb 01, 2011

Sounds good to me Uvah. Just leave the WC alone is all I have left to say.

on Feb 01, 2011

Okay. My two cents. First, good ole Uncle Sam has had for some time now the ability to 'shut down' as it were, the internet but not as it is commonly understood in terms of shutting down. The technology was developed side by side 'with' the internet. Uncle Sam never ever does something without having an out already in place. The government can't shut it down as in cutting people off from one another but he can control the where and when and to whom a user may go. There is constant monitoring of the net after 9/11. The ISP's are required, just like the FCC rules, to relinquish control during a state of emergency or cooperate with any government agency that happens to hold priority. The government isn't stupid. They know that shutting down something so vast would instantly set off protests everywhere and for good reason. you don't maintain control by giving the people a reason to take that control away from you. As for a cyber attack. That is far more likely than a nuclear exchange. A cyber attack targets communications. An atom bomb targets people. You can use one to trigger the other but to what purpose. Why destroy the very thing you want to control. You can't control the hearts and minds of dead people. A lesson Uncle Sam is only now beginning to learn. So yeah. When push comes to shove Uncle Sam can shut it down in a heartbeat. You just won't know it.
My understanding of the situation (based on the mini-scandal that erupted when the news came out) is that although the NSA is monitoring all internet traffic through US ISPs, they do not in fact have the capacity to sort through and understand all that information. And there is a big difference between being able to monitor things and being able to actually affect them. The powers that be can order the ISPs around all they want, but I'm not sure they would be entirely capable of knowing what to tell them to do. If they gave the wrong order, who knows what would happen...

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